airing your dirty laundry, Mormon style
Additionally, there may be visible garment-lines at the neck, knees, and upper arms. Short shirts in females may reveal the garment-covered midriff. Talk may occur between insiders about styles, fabrics, annoyances, where to find long shorts, how to get away with a lower neckline, how getting away with a lower neckline is evil, etc.
Garment-checking culture was especially strong at BYU. Checking for "the smile," the dipping neckline in some men's style of garments, was a common way among my acquaintances to determine if a male BYU student was a return missionary (RM) or not (and hence potential future-husband material or not). I am embarrassed to admit that I checked for the smile on my now-husband to figure out if he was an RM or not. I was confused when I didn't see the smile. (It was because he wore crew neck garments, which I didn't know existed.)
Another technique I learned at BYU was to sit down next to a guy and place a hand on his knee to feel for a garment line. He just thinks you're flirting, but really you're checking for a marker of his righteousness. Yep, I used that one too. Awful. Just once, on a guy I was just starting to date. And I actually had the audacity to say something when I didn't feel or see a knee line. (He explained he was wearing the long-john thermal version.) It seems so intrusive and overly-personal to me now, but then it seemed normal. I had to know if I was wasting time on a non-temple-marriageable guy, right?
I suppose the garment-checking dynamics operated differently for men looking for women at BYU, since fewer women were
While I was a faithful Mormon, it never occurred to me that having a church tell me to wear their garments was weird. I just grew up with it. When the bishops and stake presidents in temple recommend interviews asked me if I was "wearing the temple garment night and day," I just considered it as part of their job. And it was my duty to tell them yes or no (and it was always yes). It was only after I left that I realized how utterly inappropriate it is for a church to regulate my underwear.
13 comments:
That's an interesting viewpoint you just posted. Isn't it amazing all that we did and thought was OK?
efta,
just want to say i love your blog--it's one of my personal favorites. it really does seem so odd and intrusive and such a violaton of personal privacy to have a grown man asking a young woman about her underwear habits. and i used to wonder why people thought mormons were strange (must have been anti-Mormon lies, i would think). Ugh.
I am so glad I avoided the G's. Marrying a nonmember has a lot of benenfits! I never even looked for the tell/tale lines. I wasn't all that interested in RM's myself.
And yeah I also think it is totally inappropriate to ask women about their underwear! That would have creeped me out!
You're very lucky to have avoided them, Regina. Sooo unsexy, too.
Equality- Thanks.
It really never occurred to me that it was weird until I left. "If that's what God asked!"
It's broken record time. You know what I'm about to say... I did all that and saw all that too. I remember seeing friends and co-workers who would wear sleeveless shirts and I *knew* that they weren't temple worthy. I had such a judgemental mind back then.
sigh. You're my hero.
Christy- No, you're my hero for having been goth in high school. I can totally picture the black eye make up. And just look how you ended up...could've totally predicted it.
I actually had the nerve to tell a member of the bishopric who was doing the garment-line feel-up if he was going to buy me dinner first.
I was real popular among the leadership of that singles ward, I'll tell you what.
I wish I could edit. :( "I actually had th nerve to ask" was supposed to be the first line. :(
What is the guy-guy garment-line feel up? On the back, feeling for a neckline?
I CRINGE when I remember asking someone - who I knew had been on a mission - why he wasn't wearing his garments. OH MY GOD!!! How was that ANY of my business??? *cringe, cringe*
Hi,
I'm a Mormon (man) living in California. I've enjoyed reading your blog. I must say that I spent some time away from the church after my mission and didn't go through the process of returning till I'd read all I wanted to (about church history). I particularly enjoyed one of your other posts regarding the rich meanings garments have in our culture. I HATED mine when I got them. I didn't really get to choose them. Years later, when I'd returned to church, I decided I'd like to wear them again. They're much better when you've truly chosen to wear them. Those years I was less/inactive (beginning less than a year after returning from a mission) I didn't wear them. I must admit that I've had my fair share of complaints about the Church. Most of them seem unnecessary now. I regret many of the things I did during my time as an outsider (my wife was a "Gentile" at the time), but I'm glad I had a chance to decide, for myself, that I wanted to cast my vote for the Church. I think open communication, demystifying "deep" doctrines and honesty about history help. I wonder, have you expanded your readings? I particularly enjoy The Rise of Mormonsism (written by a Gentile) and a book by Kathleen Flake about the Reed Smoot hearings. I am currently studying an American Indian language as a grad student (which, by the way, is in no way related to Hebrew). I've been lucky enough to be exposed to so many cultures and a lot of reality. I find that much of what "we", as young Americans currently/formerly part of a unique ethnic/religious group gripe about does not hold water. There's a skeleton in EVERY closet. I should say that my father was a branch president when he was excommunicated for being a child molester, that I LOATHED Utahans after suffering from nine companions from the Beehive state and that I generally can't stand a lot of Mormons. In fact, I completely understand everything everyone here has said. I guess I'm just the weird one who went the other way, an ex-jack-mormon. And, I should say for those of you who will someday return to the Church, you can tell the ex-jack-mormons apart from the rest. We're perhaps a little less idealistic and, often, a lot more willing to tolerate problems in the church which are of little consequence and to not tolerate those problems which once would have been ignored due to misplaced belief in the infallibility of other humans. Google omniglot deseret alphabet and check out a cool piece of shared Mormon history. (There's a link at the bottom for a guide to reading and writing the deseret alphabet).
Good Luck,
Diasporic Deseretian
Welcome, Alex. Now you must be a unique person, an ex-jack-Mormon. Good for you for being able to make that decision for yourself.
I continue to expand my readings on Mormonism, but not at the pace as in the beginning. I have other interests and pursuits, but I suppose I'll always be interested in reading more and more. Thanks for the book tips.
"I find that much of what "we", as young Americans currently/formerly part of a unique ethnic/religious group gripe about does not hold water."
What do you mean? As compared to other people, for example, HIV+, illiterate women in resource poor countries--people who I talk to in my research? Belief me, I have perspective on how very petty it is to complain about garments!
But part of that complaining, my issues with the church, are not necessarily matters that made me not believe or not want to be a part of it anymore. The reasons I don't believe and don't practice are much larger than things like garments or fallible leaders. By "griping" about them I am not trying to justify my disbelief. Rather it is a matter of deconstructing my past, getting into the nooks and crannies of my deeply-held beliefs and trying to figure them out, throwing out what stinks and embracing what works and what makes me better.
"There's a skeleton in EVERY closet." I totally agree. I'll never find a perfect church, country, ideology, self. Ever. But I feel it is important to talk about our skeletons, acknowledge them, and work past them--but not ignore them, cover them up, pretend they aren't there. It seems you've found a good balance of being able to acknowledge the church's skeletons--but the church has not.
If I came across a non-profit organization that refused leadership positions to women, discriminated against gays, and hid their financial dealings...Hmm, I'd be very, very wary. In fact, there's no way I'd ever join or support them financially.
Hello,
I'm sorry I didn't return to check this blog after posting a comment. I doubt anyone will read this one. Anyway, I understand what you're saying and thank you again for your honesty. I'm not bothered by separate roles for men and women or the exclusion of homosexuals. I can see plausible reasons for both. I realize that this is not a popular view (even among the "faithful"). I guess I really don't care. Too much is made of these (non-)issues, in my mind. That being said, I don't tolerate unnecessary patriarchal posturing. My mother, after my father was jailed (and they, obviously, separated) always seemed to defer to respected men in the stake for advice. It used to really anger me. I later realized that she wasn't really listening to them, so much, as using them as an excuse to do what she wanted to do anyway. Still very annoying. Well, sorry to take up too much space. I do hope you come back some day.
Take Care,
Diasporic Deseretian
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