sorry and visit
I've been extremely busy lately and haven't had the time to dedicate to blogging and answering comments. I'm sorry! I will get to the comments, and I'll post as often as I can in the next couple weeks.
Random thoughts:
My sister is coming to town tomorrow. The one that will talk to me about religion. We'll see how it goes!
Last night I went to a wine and cheese party. Guess who was there? A Muslim, a Mormon, and two other people who didn't drink either. I was the only one who had a glass of wine. How weird is that? I drank right in front of the Mormon guy--a person I used to attend church with--while we talked about missionaries in Europe. I love it.
Oh, remember the Mormon guy who found me at work? He is married (duh, of course he's married, he's Mormon and over 23), so he would be in the same ward as me if I went to church. So he does realize I don't go. Meh.
9 comments:
Not all Mormons are prudish. Many aren't judgmental at all. We have enough problems of our own not to need to worry about what you're doing. Heck, when I wasn't a Mormon, I invited my Mormon friend to a party and he said "My wife and I don't drink." I pointed out that a guy in his study group didn't either but he always came to the parties just to get to know people, and my Mormon classmate came to the next party. My advice: don't worry so much about Mormons looking for you and your "sins" and you'll probably find out that many of them aren't looking for them. Just a thought.
It looks like "Anon" got-up on the wrong side of the Gospel today. Well there are plenty of non-prudish Mormons like I was who did not mind going to an occasional happy hour or party, but there are plenty more who are prudish. While each religion has their share of "whackos" it seems to me that the LDS Chruch has more than their share. Maybe that is worth blogging about?
So go back to bed take two Joseph Smiths with a GBH chaser and check back with us in the morning. Out.
anon- Did I give the wrong impression? Or did I just not explain myself well? I meant to say that I didn't give a damn that the Mormon guy was there, and I enjoyed the fact that I didn't give a damn. In the early days after leaving, I was uncomfortable drinking around people I used to go to church with, but I did it anyway because I felt that worrying about their "standards" shouldn't be my concern. I am positive some of them were judgmental about it. I know there are Mormons who aren't judgmental about it, too. I know some; they tend to be less "TBM" and more jack, liberal or NOM, though. The first time I got drunk I was with non-drinking Mormons, and they were very cool about it. Converts can also be less prudish; they've seen more of the world than having been raised Mormon in Utah, like me.
For future reference, my "typical Mormon" is a version of what I used to be like. When I make generalizations, they should be understood to reflect my personal experience. It is refreshing to hear other's experiences, too. Keep 'em coming.
Az- JS and GBH? Please share the drink recipes! ;)
AZ:
I didn't wake up on the wrong side of the gospel. Jesus did not teach us to stand in judgment of those who do not share our beliefs. He broke bread with, and spent most of his time among, those who were labelled "sinners" for one reason or another. I see no call to judge others, especially if I have been guilty of wrongdoing myself.
No, I am not saying fta is wrong and giving a back-handed judgment here. I am saying she has the right to choose, just like I do.
Yes, fta, I am a convert, so that may be part of why I don't act like the TBM/typical Mormon you have in your mind. Sorry to have misunderstood your post. I was just telling you what I did because I have seen a lot of misunderstandings about each side of such matters (assumption of judgment, in the case of what I mean but apparently not what you meant) turn into bitter hatred. Bitterness is no good for anyone, as it merely tears apart those who feel it. I'm glad you feel good about who you are.
to quote Hellmut:
"There is nothing wrong with being angry.
Jesus was angry about the money changers in the temple. Gandhi was angry about exploitation by colonial powers. Rosa Parks was angry about discrimination. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was angry about the Holocaust. Veronica Guerin was angry about drug dealers. Desmond Tutu was angry about racism.
Anger can be a powerful motivator for good. The angry people in my examples used their anger to bring about a more inclusive and humane reality.
The powers that be, of course, want to de-legitimize anger so that no one be allowed to identify their dirty little racket at the expense of humanity."
I find that angry, bitter ex-mos are going through a necessary stage of grief.
Grief, I can see and accept, but when it comes from people who claim to be happy with their choice it seems inconsistent. That is my main point. Grief, especially when in its darkest hour, often seeks to lash out at someone or something as the "reason" for the pain, but that does not make it right. But then, you don't have to be right. I just question the two statements being made by the same people/person: he is happy with his choice but deeply bitter towards what he chose to leave. Happiness and grief are generally such opposite feelings that it is hard for the two to coexist in one person. I'm sure they can in fleeting moments - you can be laugh at a funny joke even when you're in mourning, you can be reminded of great loss and feel sad for it even when you're on top of the world - but I find it hard for the two to remain together for long. One tends to drive the other out or they swirl like storm fronts and create a hurricane of confusion inside a soul. Again, I'm just asking because I do not understand the need for it, not because it truly bothers me that people do it. I agree, it is a sign of a grieving soul - as well as a rationalizing one who wants to prove to anyone listening that the decision was right. Such is the way of things.
anon- I understand you point about grief and happiness not co-existing in one person. If I hadn't experienced it, I would agree with you. But I have. I felt both positive and negative emotions in the aftermath of leaving. There is a freedom and liberation, and all the happiness that comes with that, along with a grief for the loss of my old life and paradigm. And the sorrow at how it will hurt my family, all the while knowing it is better for me.
Perhaps it's something like a divorce. There is loss of the relationship, the hardship on the kids, the pain of hurting the spouse, etc., but also a happiness at the new lease on life. Can you see how someone can be both happy and sad about divorcing?
I wasn't saying you can't have both happy and sad emotions. You definitely can. I was saying something as strong as "grief" has trouble coexisting with happiness, and vice versa.
A good example of your point from my own life is the weekend after 9/11. While everyone was still in shock and saddened by the event itself, we had a lot of joy because of the first birthday of my dear friend. It was a wonderful time for us all to begin to move forward with our lives.
I have definitely had happiness in the midst of deep mourning, but it was often fleeting. I have grieved for a loss in the midst of great joy, but it was also fleeting. My point was simply that grief and happiness have trouble coexisting. They can, but one or the other tends to win out, so if someone is truly happy, they should not have so many negative emotions still pent up towards the church.
Again, I see your point, and I understand the hurt. I do not mean to belittle it in any way.
I wanted to respond to your comments about your visit with your sister, but there isn't a place to respond. I think it is good you have a strong relationship with your sister. One of the reasons I work to keep positive relationships with non-members (especially family) is so they can ask me questions and I can ask them questions, and we can have a dialogue. That, to me, is much healthier than everyone quietly sitting by and building up their own ideas inside as to what the other person thinks.
Again, recalling my own experiences in leaving one church for another, I can tell you it's not always easy to tell someone as close as a sibling that you are leaving their church. My sister did not take it so well that I converted. She assumed (and I believe still assumes) I did it to please my wife. My Dad continued to say that for a long time but seems to have accepted it is simply not true. By being open about it with them, though, it is much easier on both of us to understand choices we make and comments we make. If I never told my family I was a Mormon, then got married in the temple suddenly, that would be very hard. If I never told them and got angry once that they'd poured me a tea at a meal, they would be terribly confused, and I wouldn't blame them. In the South, many places serve water or tea with meals automatically, and you have to ask for the water, so it can lead to some comments automatically. Ironically, following the Word of Wisdom was easy for me in that way because I never liked tea, coffee, alcohol, or tobacco. I drank coffee very rarely and then only if full of sweeteners and cream, and I was pretty adept at mixing drinks in college (I was an unofficial bartender in college for several parties my friends had). I just never had a real attraction to any of it, though. You could ask me to give up eating dirt, liver, tuna salad, and puppy chow and I probably would've felt it about as much as I did in "giving up" what I did with the Word of Wisdom. Sorry for the digression. My point was, I wish sometimes my sister was more open to discussing our differences than she has been. We only recently exchanged emails about our beliefs, and after I sent one back asking for more explanation pf the Trinity she never replied. On the other hand, my wife's sister who is not a member is probably more open with me about her questions about faith than with anyone. She even called me to ask about something she'd heard that other people believe, and we ended up having a two hour chat about it. Open discussion is healthy, and I am glad you have that in your life. Everyone should be so lucky.
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