Tuesday, December 18, 2007

surprise

In a phone conversation with my dad, he brought up Carl Sagan.

"I always wondered," he said with a chuckle, "what Carl Sagan thought when he woke up on the other side. 'Oops, guess I was wrong [about the non-existence of an afterlife and god]!' "

"Huh," I said to let him know I was listening. But I was quite bothered by his comment.

"Can you imagine? What do people who didn't believe in God think when they die and see God? What are they going to do then? 'Well, now what?' Bit of a shock." He laughed some more.

And once again I was jarringly reminded that I am a closet atheist.

Sure, it's easy enough to tell a random neighbor, or a non-believing colleague, or DAMU friends, or post about it openly on my anonymous blog. But tell family? Mom and Dad?

The conversation with my dad made me realize not only that I've never discussed my new positions with him, but how very far I am from telling him. How do I tell him? Just squeeze it in to a Sunday evening telephone conversation? Write a letter?

I've really not felt compelled to announce my personal beliefs like that at all, actually. I never was comfortable with testimony-bearing when I was a Mormon, though the culture encourages open and frequent professions of belief. Personal beliefs should not be the subject of casual conversation or family newsletter announcements, in my opinion.

I suppose the Carl Sagan conversation would have been the perfect opportunity to let him know. Possible phrases skipped through my mind as I listened to him. "You know, Dad, I'm an atheist." "Actually, Dad, I really respect Sagan, and I find it rather rude to talk to him like that." "Um, Dad, Sagan wasn't off the mark in my opinion."

But he was talking about atheists so dismissively, so derisively. My dad is generally quite nice. He doesn't make fun of people or speak rudely. It's weird for me to use "derisive" to describe anything he ever said. But atheists, apparently, are unworthy of the normal respect with which he would talk about the dearly departed.

I found it too difficult to come out and tell him he might as well group me with the non-believers whom he so obviously derides. It didn't occur to me that maybe he was trying to pull me out of the non-believers' closet, throwing out some bait and seeing if I'd bite. I'd assumed that the word had gotten around that I was an atheist; apparently not.

After some deliberation of whether to speak up or not, I decided on a compromise. Rather than tell him what I thought, I told him what I thought Sagan would have thought had he woken up in an afterlife after all. We'd discusses Sagan's ideas on aliens a few months ago, so I jumped off from there.

"Well, maybe Carl Sagan would think the same way about God as he would about aliens. He'd be pleasantly surprised, excited, you know, to find any aliens. He just thinks there's not enough evidence to support that idea that we will contact any aliens. Maybe he'd think the same about God. Not enough evidence to believe, but still, he'd probably say, 'Oh, okay, cool!' if he woke up after dying. You know?" Which is what I think a lot of atheists would think. We don't disbelieve in God because we don't want an afterlife necessarily, we just think there's not enough evidence to believe in one. But if there is, all right, awesome, next great adventure, huh?

My dad laughed some more, but a pleasant laugh. "Huh, yeah, maybe. That could very well be true. Like the aliens. Ha!"

And I remained in hiding.

12 comments:

Mai said...

You could just hand him or e-mail him a piece of paper, on it written:
http.emergingfromtheashes.blogspot.com/ Someday, I'm going to do that with my blog and the Church Ladies. But that would be a little mean, eh?

I have often heard,'What if we're right?' from Christians. 'You ought to join us, just in case. It's better than burning in hell! You have nothing to lose!'

No, actually, I couldn't under any circumstances or for any reason believe in your concept of God. To my thinking, he is evil and immoral. To demand a human sacrifice and of a completely innocent person to save me from my sins, which I'm not really responsible for because I was born a sinner and can't help it, it's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! I couldn't accept that and if I burn in Hell or am condemned to Outer Darkness or the Terrestrial/Telestrial Kingdom (which ever) because of it, well, I'd rather do that than call Evil Good and worship it! I may be condemned, but I'll be condemned with my integrity intact.

But I'm a Sikh, so I just smile and say, 'I'm glad you've found a path that works for you.'

Mai said...

I forgot to check the subscribe to comments box.

from the ashes said...

Whoo, mai, what a great tirade you wrote there! I love it. It was always confusing to me, even as a Christian, why Jesus HAD TO die. Why? Why that in particular? If he's god, couldn't he make it happen another way?

I've often heard Pascal's wager--it's better to believe, because if there is god, you're okay. And if there isn't, it didn't matter anyway. But that falls apart, really, with Mormon theology because the T kingdoms are better than earth anyway. And even the nonbelievers get that. Better that than be the 15th wife of some guy in the Celestial Kingdom and pop out babies for eternity.

Hmm...Would I ever show my blog to my dad? If I were free of all fear, I suppose I would. It's a not-so-secret longing of mine to show it to my family. To just get it out there and say "This is me. Me. Take it or leave it."

Mai said...

The problem with that is that THEY JUST MIGHT LEAVE IT!! And you, too. You'd be taking an awful chance, especially if they were completely unprepared. Still, that sort of thing is fun to think about.

Did I ever leave you the link for the time I told off the priest and got kicked out of the Catholic Church? (Mother was Catholic.) I'm sure I did; it's one of my favourite posts. But just in case:

http://mai-sometimes.blogspot.com/2007/03/day-i-became-sikh.html

Mai said...

I came across this blog that you might like to check out. I found it interesting.

http://incertus.blogspot.com/2007/12/attack-of-straw-new-atheist-when-i-was.html

hm-uk said...

mai,

There's a brilliant comedian/social commentator here in the UK called Hardeep Singh Kohli who, probably because of his Sikh upbringing, has actually made a series of television programmes that examine religion in terms of simplest tenets and definitions. His out-loud commentary mirrors a lot of what you say in-your-head. He has managed to show people by engaging them that they may want to take a look at the double standards within their belief systems but he does it in such a gentle, non-mocking way. It is sheer genius. I'm not sure if you can access any of the vids from the US, but if you can see him in action (talking about religions and anything else for that matter) then you should give him a view. Sorry to get off track. FTA, I think the way you approached your dad was great. He may have wanted to wind you up by using a very emotive approach in probing your beliefs - you answered him in a way that hands the question back to him without slamming his beliefs. Well done, yet again...

hm-uk said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

well, FTA, you are much more diplomatic than me. i probably would have said nothing or spouted off about judgment toward atheists.

i got a christmas card from my MIL today. first of all, it was addressed to "the [my husband's full name] family," which sets my teeth on edge as it is. secondly, the entire card was about christ, his sacrifice, blah blah friggin' blah, with the handwritten comment, "may the LORD bless your family, and may you feel christ's love in the new year!" i know she was well-intentioned, or at least believed that she was, but i have to say it really put a damper on my whole day. it's hard not to take that stuff personally, as some sort of point. then again, we're not "out" as atheists either, so...i guess we just get what we deserve. most people we know seem to be petitioning just to keep us believing in god/christ at this point.

Unknown said...

You know what gets me? It's how people claim they KNOW this beyond a shadow of a doubt. They KNOW they are right and they KNOW you are wrong.
I don't claim to KNOW anything.
There are things I believe and assume but I may be wrong. Who says MY beliefs are right and MILLIONS or BILLIONS and BILLIONS (channeling Carl here) are wrong? That's pretty conceited, I think.
No, I KNOW that's conceited.

from the ashes said...

Oh, mai, what a sad thought, that they might just leave it/me. I'd like to believe they will accept me however I am, as they have now, but if they really knew me and my thoughts...and I know how strong the Mo-think is and how strong the cognitive dissonance would be for them to see me write what I do and still know that I am a good person. I'd more likely selectively send them bits (as I have done when faithful Mormons ask me my story).

hm-uk I hadn't thought of it like that. Thanks.

chandelle- It is difficult, isn't it? I'm sure your mom (and other similar xmas card writers) thinks of it as sharing part of herself more than trying to shove that part of her onto you. I hope. But I still understand how it is frustrating to hear that stuff. It reminds me of something my mom said the other day--but I think I'll make a whole post out of it rather than stick it here. Even if you were out as atheists, do you think she'd still talk like that to you?

becca- I know what you mean. I try hard to be agnostic about things, though I do catch myself sometimes acting/talking with too much confidence and pulling back. (see my post about my uncle's funeral, for example, when I was being smug about my family being so sure he was in an afterlife, then realizing I was being just as smug about thinking he wasn't in an afterlife.

"I know" should have no place in testimony-bearing and beliefs. They are _beliefs_.

Rebecca said...

I think your response is brilliant. Absolutely perfect. Even if you were "out" as an atheist/agnostic, it's still a completely great response to someone who believes in god, and might not take you seriously if you just said, "How do you think you'll feel when you die and there's NOTHING?" (which of course doesn't even make sense, but I'm looking past that right now).

I don't think I told you (although you may have gleaned it from the content), but those emails to my mom that I sent you were in response to something really offensive she forwarded about atheism. She has no idea what I believe about god/religion (if she's not interested enough to ask, I don't care enough to tell is how I feel about it), but I always defend atheism with the arguments 1) if you want people to respect what you believe, you'd better respect what they believe, and 2) How is it EVER a bad thing to be exposed to different ideas and views? How is it EVER a good thing to be so afraid of other points of view that you lock yourself (or worse - your children) in a little box and never teach them to THINK?

Anyway, don't feel bad about "hiding" - you'll get it out there when you're ready, and in the meantime you've come up with the best response in any case.

from the ashes said...

rebecca- That's a great way to argue and defend. I'll have to remember that. It doesn't turn it into a debate, just an opening of minds. Hopefully.